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Cheating the intent of muzzleloader season
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Wahkahchim
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Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 285

Real Name: Peter Andresen

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Cheating the intent of muzzleloader season Reply with quote

I am in New Hampshire for muzzleloader deer season. We stopped in at a gun store to pick up a hunting license. Wall to wall space-age in-line guns. Blackpowder hunting is not supposed to be about gaming the system. We are supposed to be using traditional guns to commune with the spirit of our ancestors and give the deer a chance against shooting technology which isn't as efficient as modern guns. Instead the walls of gunshops are lined with photos of 400 yard Pyrodex in-line elk kills. Any thoughts on what we can do about that? The man at the gunstore says they no longer sell black powder because EVERYBODY uses pyrodex in-lines.

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Shawnee Mike
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
Real Name: Mike Greenhorse

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bezon,
This is an old story we have come to hate. Seems some folks are not happy unless they kill something. Personally , i have no respect at all for those hunters and consider it cheating the system as you say. But, I doubt there is much we can do.
I wont even SAY the "I" word

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flashpan
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Joined: 14 Jun 2010
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Real Name: Jerry R. Pollock

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you!

I thought maybe I was the only one that felt this way about the "I" guns.

It'd be cool if we could get them to have the current "blackpowder" season for the "I" guys and create a new primitive weapons season for us traditionalists where the "I" guns and p*****x wouldn't be allowed. That could create a market where the gun stores might start handling blackpowder again.

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Last edited by flashpan on Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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markinmi
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 48

Real Name: mark drinkard

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use to have a fellow come through at the rendevous looking things over ,saw it happen at least four times.He'd say every time " This stuff is real interesting but I have an inline just so I can hunt during the muzzleloading season" Tried to make peace and tell him he aught to try a traditional gun but he would Hee Haw it, just stopped talking to the guy after awhile.
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dnaw_4304
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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Real Name: Dustin Warren

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not let the "I" guys hunt during regular modern rifle season with their modern guns. If you can hit something at 400 yds with pyrodex, why the hell can't you hunt during opening rifle season with the rest of the guys who can hit at 400 yards.

Just my 2,

Dustin
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Captain_Cogle
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dnaw_4304 wrote:
Why not let the "I" guys hunt during regular modern rifle season with their modern guns. If you can hit something at 400 yds with pyrodex, why the hell can't you hunt during opening rifle season with the rest of the guys who can hit at 400 yards.

Just my 2,

Dustin


Because they are obsessed idiots who have to make a kill rather than simply enjoy the experience of hunting and being out doors and arent man enough to try it the traditional way.

I never thought I would ever say I hated a gun. But I do HATE "I" guns.

Yeah. I said it.

By the by Dusty let me know how that Turkey shoot goes.
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bob miller
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 138
Location: Sharbot Lake,Ontario
Real Name: Bob Miller

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We organized a muzzleloading shoot at our gun club last Fall and invited inline shooters as well as traditional . All welcome. We had prizes and provided lunch. Not one inline shooter showed up..not one!
They get the guns for a couple of extra weeks of deer hunting, and then put them away. We'd be better off if they just kept the regular season open longer,'cause 1/2 these folks can't even shoot their inlines worth a darn.
The guy behind the counter at the gun store told us that you don't have to clean the gun with P****x and it's not messy like black powder.
Add blister pack bullets at a buck a shot, and you get the impression pretty quick that this is all about selling stuff, not traditional hunting.
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captchee
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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Real Name: charles starks

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here in idaho you can use what ever you want in the general any weapon season .
if you chose to use a muzzleloader, then the rules defining muzzleloaders don’t apply .
IE you can use sabots , pellet powder , scopes , closed ignitions , you name it .
Where in the muzzle loading only hunts you cant

IMO that general any weapon season is also where the greatest opportunity is as pretty much the whole state is open . Where during the muzzle loading season we have a few units . Many of which were draw or permit only .

Now that being said . It wasn’t good enough . The modern folks wanted and forced their way into the muzzle loading season because they supposedly want more time in the woods .
So they got accepted by the commission . Now each year they want more and each year a rule or two that confines them falls
For years we held on with areas defined loosely as traditional only . In fact a couple years back the state dropped the hammer and outlawed 98% of the modern designs for muzzle loading .
The F&G department claimed that we had to reduce harvest # in the muzzle loading hunts or close down many of the hunts
But a few of the modern folks raised such a stink to the governor, he came down and force the game commission to remove the rule , despite polls showing that a majority of hunters wanted the rule left in place
As such we no longer have any defined traditional hunts . What muzzle loading hunts we do have are now for the most part ,permit / draw ONLY .
They did however pass some rules that strictly confined the modern guns .
However it took only one year and they were back at wanting more and more allowances .

Its all about politics and money until the traditional hunters “ be they the primitive bow hunters or traditional muzzleloaders “decide to stand up in numbers and say ENOUGH.! And thus force those who make the laws to make a stand . You wont have a chance in hell of holding on to a traditional defined hunt .
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Tommy Bruce
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Joined: 15 May 2007
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Real Name: Tommy Bruce

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: In^&%&s Reply with quote

Yep I agree 100%. So much technology in the woods these days. The kiddo and I just got back from a patch of woods here in Southeastern ohio that I hunted all the time when I was a kid. Some private property intermixed with Wayne National Forest. Already the 4 wheelers were buzzing about, saw a trail camera, no-tresspassing signs that were never there in the past. But I digress. A friend of mine asked a DNR officer about doing away with the inlines and he basically said that hunting was a dying sport and they didn't want to alienate anyone. (I.E. they don't want to lose any licsence money). Well Greg went on to ask about a seperate season for us traditional folks and his reply was "We don't want to make the archery folks mad". Frustrating times indeed.
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Tom Black
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Joined: 16 May 2007
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Real Name: Tom Black

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a real burr under my saddle and has been for years. I can't see the inlines being religated to modern gun season only as the states would lose to much money. And the bottom line is its a money thing. Yes I loath all of this hi-tech crap, the inlines and the ALD's, the camo, the calls and the scents, all of this food plot garbage. I mean does anyone just go out into the woods and hunt near a stand of mast bearing whiteoaks anymore? And all of these brain rotting hunting shows that are out today are sending the wrong message to younger folks about what hunting is really about. Most of the people on these shows are just idiots. Saw an episode of the Jim Shockey show and he's going on and on about how difficult it is to hunt with an ML-and he's packing an inline with a huge scope on it. I mean gag me with a spoon. On a lighter note back in October during the weekend of our BP deer season my wife and I were driving through town and 4 guys in full camo came out of a store and into their truck and I said something about the weirdo's and my wife glanced at me and said, "Have you looked in a mirror in the last few years?" I'm not weird, I'm the only normal person around here.
Tom Black
Cantucky
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Wahkahchim
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Joined: 29 Jul 2010
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Real Name: Peter Andresen

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This morning my bro-in-law and I went on a quiet woods walk with our traditional flintlocks...I had time to think about it.

Flintlock hunting is what you do when it's more about the experience and less about the killing. The meat tastes better when you earned it.

When the skills of the man are more important than the overwhelming power of the technology.

When the ways of nature are more important than the toys you carry.

When the song of our ancestors which we feel in our souls is louder than the hunting advertisement shows on TV.

When living free for its own sake is more important than slavery to possessions.

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ofiebakoa
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Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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Location: kc mo
Real Name: Daniel Jackson

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Cheating muzzleloading Reply with quote

I agree 100%. To hunt with my flintlock makes me depend on my
sinces and smarts in the woods. Gives the animals a fair chance.
Not an assination of them. Savage arms have even come up with an
I gun that uses smokless powder. Talk about cheating.
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Dave Muns
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Michigan
Real Name: David Muns

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you I to have very strong feelings on this subject. We tried to get a traditional muzzleloading early deer season here in Michigan and because the bow hunters coalition is so large it was shot down. All we wanted is for one week in Oct to allow the purebloods to hunt deer with flintlock only weapons. We tried to explain that 99.9% of the hunters will not go out and purchase a flintlock to be able to participate in this early season so the numbers of flintlock hunters in the woods will be miniscule. Many of those same bow hunters arguing about the sport of it own and use inlines. Michigan is divided into three zones for deer rules. Here in zone 3 we can only use a shotgun and not a center fire rifle to hunt deer. The argument is that rifled bullets carry too far and much of the hunting land in zone 3 is farms with surrounding houses. So what does the firearm industry do - make rifled shotgun barrels and inlines shooting sabots that have a 300 yard kill range. These can be used in the shotgun only zone - makes a lot of sense. Thousands of guys have purchased semi cheap inlines that gives them another two weeks of hunting and we like to call it "muzzleloading season".
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bob miller
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Sharbot Lake,Ontario
Real Name: Bob Miller

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What really kills me is that a 50 yd shot is a long one here in the woods.
The whole 200plus yd thing is a waste. Most of my deer are shot at 10 to 25 yds. We went out with a group of guys 2 years ago,and they kind of sneared
at our single shot muzzleloaders. My friend got a deer 1/2 hour later with one shot. 1 of the 2 taken that day. It took many shots to finally bring that other deer to bag.
My point here is that just because we hunt with flintlocks, dosn't mean that
we have less of a desire to eat venison! We love venison, and need the meat to boot, but we hunt harder and longer than most of the modern rifle guys.
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Dave Muns
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Location: Michigan
Real Name: David Muns

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Bob. On more than one occasion I have been the one dragging one by the antlers in my period funny clothes toting my football field long flinter watching the faces of the modern gunners as I walked up. I know that is not a very humble attitude - but what can I say. And you are right - the ave deer shot here in Mich is 50 yards and under.
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