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sweaters
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bob miller
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Sharbot Lake,Ontario
Real Name: Bob Miller

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: sweaters Reply with quote

Mid to late 1700's. I'm going to be out on a camp in Feb. up here.
Minus 20 to 30 is probable. In all my research I see lots of evidence of wool shirts etc, coats, but haven't found anything re a nice warm wool sweater.
They knew how to knit, didn't they? A warm sweater makes a lot of sense, and I'd really like to wear one under my westkit, over which I would wear my 2nd shirt, and then blanket if necessary. So...any sweaters documented? { Canadian, Ottawa valley Loyalist }
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Steve G
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Joined: 17 May 2007
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Real Name: Stephen Gove

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This same thing was brought up in a conversation with a friend last summer. He had thought the same thing as you (almost word for word) but hadn't been able to find any reference to sweaters. Wasn't until a friend from England was visiting on a cool day and asked if anyone had seen her "jumper". Using that term he's been able to find several references.
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Fitzhugh Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some garments made out of a nice duffel wool would really help to keep you warm.
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Condé
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

References are one thing. References to a thing being in use in North America in the 18th century are often a totally different thing.

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D.S. Bradshaw
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Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll have to go outside the whole English-French centrism and look into the Scandinavian/Swede/Germanic cultures that also immigated to this continent. These folks brought their clothing essentials with them just as every other culture did. Too often folks get bogged-down by restricting research to English and French. America is and always has been much more diverse than this. FWIW
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bob miller
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the German/Palatin ?? influx into the Mohawk Valley, or the French Canadians { toques } . My question is, if sweaters were not used, why?
My shirt is a nice wool material andit is warm, but a sweater is nice too.
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Mario
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Real Name: Mario Doreste

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen wool shirts or sweaters for 18th century.

Wool flannel under-weskits, wool jackets worn under your coat, yes.

Look at the article entitled "Clothing Provincials in the Canadian Department" at www.royalyorkers.ca for some winter clothing documentation.



bob miller wrote:

They knew how to knit, didn't they?


Yes. They also had steel and wood and the knowledge of building rifles, but they didn't build AK-47s. Basing something off of the fact that they had the material can lead one down a long, painful road.

I've been out to -14F as a 1750s Frenchman in mocassins (wool liners), shirt, leggings, stockings, wool under-weskit, wool capot and tuque.

Depends on your tolerance for cold also (I had just moved here from Alaska).

Mario

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Biz
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Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From " the diary of Jabez Fitch Jr "
" After Hide was Gon We Over Halld the Stores & Found a Vast Number of Flaning Shurts Shoes Stockings Mild Caps & Many Large Pieses of Cloath Cheefly Stripd & Checkd Flaning "

What is flaning ?
Bill
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badWind
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flannel ??
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Isaac
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen a few rare reference to ganseys, but am still trying to figure them, and not in regards to what is happening with what most of us do here.

There were knit undershirts in the 17th century and there are a few extant examples, but they were not necessarily like sweaters and they are definately a 17th century and no later item (that I can tell).

For the cold, there are plenty of good wool garments to wear, from undershirts, to waiscoats, to capots/coats. I have been out in -50 (with a clout) and many layers of the above and managed alright.

IW

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D.S. Bradshaw
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Location: Middle Waters, USA
Real Name: D. Scott Bradshaw

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It probably won't help in your search for sweaters in your area, but look into the North Atlantic cultures, especially fishing and maritime industry. I cannot re-locate the images so far, but there were some Dutch, and Danish sweater type tunics somewhere in all my pyrate research that got lost on my last computer. they were 1680's-1700's if memory serves me correctly. Not land use documentation, but I'll keep looking after finals this week. I gotta get back to studying!!!
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KeithF
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Real Name: Keith Feeman

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion as one who knits, it would be the time factor. You can get a lot more weaving done in the same amount of time.

Socks can be done rather quickly, And I have read references to tuques being knit by prisoners in france and shipped by the barrel to canada.

But the time for a housewife to turn out a sweater would be a lot more the bartering/ buying wool material and making a shirt or gillet
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Rod L
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is NOT 18th century, but by the 1830s, Guernsey frocks show up on fur trade sales lists in the far west (Ft. Hall in Idaho, specifically). Searching for that term might yield something--or not!

Rod

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Le Loup
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Keeping Warm In Winter Authentically! Reply with quote

[color=green][b]I have heard a lot about the Gansey/Gurnsey but have not found any info on it earlier than the 19th century. I Emailed a LOT of places in the British Isles that were using the 17thc. & 18thc. dated to advertise their products, none of them replied!
I did get as far as finding reference to an earlier long woolen garment worn by French onion merchants travelling to England, and it is claimed that this garment was the forerunner of the English Gansey.[/b][/color]
In my bid for warmer clothing I found primary information on multiple layers of clothing being worn, two shirts, two weskits, two coats and two pairs of breeches. All this info from bog bodies.

[color=green][b]I carry a spare woolen weskit, a woolen shirt and a Monmouth cap in my blanket roll. These items I put on at night to sleep in.
Le Loup.[/b][/color]
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com[/url][/b][/color]
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Shawnee Mike
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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Location: Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
Real Name: Mike Greenhorse

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Sweaters Reply with quote

I would find it VERY difficult to believe that knitted shirts "sweaters" did not exist. I would think however thay may be called by a different name. The word "sweater" is a very strange one to me even today. makes me think of those rubber suits that folks use to loose weight. LOL

Anyway... I personally would have NO problem with a hand knit garment of any type. As to its taking alot of time to make or not, that would not be the issue.

Now on another note, This is assuming that the population knew how to knit to begin with. But given the ability to do that skill any item is possable.
Perhaps the knit "sweater" per say was an item of underclothes and not talked about much. Simillar to a "thermal Shirt" today.

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