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Any Dogs in persona??

 
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Watchman
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Joined: 03 Apr 2013
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Real Name: Zachary Masterson

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Any Dogs in persona?? Reply with quote

I am currently looking for a new dog and decided I would like for him to be able to go to reenactments with me. This being decided I did not want to show up to a French and Indian war/ revolutionary time period camp with a dog who wasn't around until the 1920's. just a personal thing and I'm sure there wouldn't be a huge uproar if I did but I would like for my new dog to be as period correct as I want to be. This being said does anyone know what dog breeds were common/around in America from 1730-1790?

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Adam Wetherington
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Real Name: Adam Wetherington

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plotts and Curs like Black Mouth Curs or maybe Catahoula type dogs would be good for a southern dog in my opinion.
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Mario
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Real Name: Mario Doreste

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strictly speaking, most events do not allow dogs.

As far as breeds, think more of "types" rather than "breeds".

Depending on "who" and "where" you are, you had Spaniels, Pointers, Bulldogs, Mastiffs, Terriers, Indian Dogs, Hounds, etc.

My 2 year old American Pit Bull Terrier is damn near the spitting image of this ca. 1790 bulldog by Philip Reinagle:

http://prints.encore-editions.com/500/0/philip-reinagle-bulldog.jpg

Reinagle painted lots of dogs:

http://www.encore-editions.com/items?q=reinagle

As did George Stubbs and James Peachey.

Also, this article by Don Hagist mentions ads for lost dogs:

British Officer’s Dogs

Here's a little article I wrote a while ago describing a number of dogs that were associated with the British army in America. This of course doesn't show which breeds were common, only something about which breeds were being kept by British officers as pets.
Don N. Hagist
Information on British soldiers: http://redcoat76. blogspot. com/

Many of the camp scenes presented in Redcoat Images illustrate an often-overlooked feature of British military culture: dogs. These animals were present almost everywhere the army was, and a hound was an integral part of the lifestyle of many gentleman officers at home and abroad.
While there can hardly be a more enduring metaphor for faithfulness and loyalty than a dog, much literature casts British soldiers in the opposite light, painting them as flighty rogues prone to desertion at the slightest opportunity. There was even an expression, "A dog before a soldier." The Redcoat Deserters series, while using desertion as a vehicle, has nonetheless shown many examples of honorable and loyal soldiers. It is only fitting, then, that we also showcase disloyal dogs, those that strayed, ran or deserted their military masters.
Like deserters, lost dogs were advertised in the newspapers:

Lost, on Sunday the 12th instant, a large white Pointer Dog, his ears spotted with yellow, has a spot about the size of a dollar near the small of his back; his stern long, which he carries high. Whoever brings the said dog, or informs so that he can be had again, shall receive a Guinea from Rowland Swan, Captain 26th regiment.
[New York Loyal Gazette, 18 October 1777]

Lost, from the camp of the 38th Regt.
A Black tanned terrier bitch, with cropped ears. Whoever will bring her to Lieut. Col. Butler, or the printer, shall receive Two Dollars reward.
[New York Gazette, 3 November 1777]

One Guinea Reward
Lost last Wednesday, the 22d inst. at Brooklyn Ferry, a black and white Dog, of the Newfoundland Breed, very large and answers to the name of Watch, he is also a good deal cut above the head. Any person who can give information, where the said Dog can be got, or will bring him to the Printer hereof or Capt Waugh of the 57th Regiment, shall receive the above reward.
[Royal Gazette (New York), 25 Dec 1779]

Lost, by an officer in New-York, on the 24th inst. a well made middle-sized Pointer Dog, about three years old, marked with two round liver coloured spots on the small of his back, one extending from his fore leg down, cut tail, brown and whiteish nose, and wants a claw on one of his fore feet. Whoever brings him to No 510, Hanover Square, or any officer of the 76th regiment, shall have four dollars reward. The dog has other spots of the same colour besides those mentioned.
[Royal Gazette (New York), 30 August 1780]

While the names are interesting, these ads are reminiscent of deserter ads that have no clothing information. They don't tell us anything about material culture or militaria. Just like deserter advertisements, however, some dog advertisements tell us what the wayward creature was wearing:

Lost, a White Pointer Dog, belonging to Captain Baillie, of the Royal Fusileers; his name is on the collar. Any person that will bring him to the Printer, shall have a Guinea reward.
[Pennsylvania Ledger, 31 December 1777]

Lost, a blue speckled Bitch, of the Pointer kind, not above six Months old, had on when lost, a brass Collar with Captain Shea's Name, of the Royal Irish. She has long brown Ears and a large round brown Spott on the middle of her back, the rest of her marked as above. Whoever will bring her to the Serjeant Major of the royal Irish, at their Barracks, shall receive Five Shillings Sterling Reward, and no Questions ask'd
N. B. As she has been accustomed entirely to Soldiers, it is hoped she has followed some who will secure her and bring her as directed. Boston, Feb. 10th, 1775.
[Boston Gazette, 13 February 1775]

Lost on Monday the 22d instant, two Dwarf English Setters, Dog and Bitch, about 8 months old. The Dog has both ears coloured, and a small spot on his forehead, about the size of a shilling, a remarkable one on the elbow of his left fore leg, and a singular feather of long hair in the form of a saddle along his back, with several spots intermixed, and answers to the name of Mingo.
The Bitch has a sharp Nose, both ears coloured, with a number of large spots on her body, her tail rather long and shagged, answers to the name of Clara.
Each of them had a Collar, engraved, Capt. Robertson, Dy. Qr. Mr. Gen. Whoever will discover where they are detained, or will take them to No. 17, Wall Street, whall be handsomely rewarded, and no questions asked.
[Royal Gazette (New York), 24 January 1781]

The New York Loyal Gazette carried an ad on 23 February 1780 for "a Spanish pointer, with a collar marked `Capt. St. Leger 63d Regt.'" which strayed from the care of John Jenkins in the Bowery section of New York, and an ad in the 22 August 1778 New York Gazette placed by Lt. Cadogan of the 7th Regiment described "a black and white bitch, of King Charles's breed, with collar marked with Cadogan's name."

This latter ad illustrates a common problem with historiography, recognizing terminology in the context of the time that it was written. If we interpret the following ads with modern linguistic usage in mind, it is not entirely obvious that the subjects of the advertisements are dogs.

Lost, about ten Days ago, an old brown-coloured Bitch, with a white Neck, white Feet, and bad Eyes, particularly her right Eye; answers to the Name of Jean. Whoever brings said Bitch to Hugh Gaine, or the Sergeant Major of the 6th Regiment, shall receive Ten Shillings Reward; or if any Person can give Information so the said Bitch can be got, they shall have the above Reward.
[New York Gazette, 6 January 1777]

Lost, on Friday afternoon from the Parade of the 37th regiment, a Bitch, with a collar, engraved Lt. Teasdale Cochell, her ears black, nose spotted, head white, her body white, except on each side a large black spot, legs spotted with black, an uncommon short tail, not cut but by nature. Said bitch was seen by a soldier of the 37th and claimed, in possession of a fellow belonging to Col. Morris's Jersey Volunteers, faced with black; the fellow refused to deliver up said bitch. Whoever will bring said bitch to the owner, shall receive Three Dollars reward.
[New York Gazette, 7 September 1778]

Just as runaway soldiers were sometimes found, so were runaway dogs. We have yet, however, to find a case of a dog being tried by court martial:

Found in the Jersies, a brown and white spaniel bitch, with a brass collar and engraved upon it, Capt. Kenneer Royal Fuzileers. The owner applying to Capt. John M'Neal, on board the ship Jenny, in Beekman's-slip, or Capt. Robert Shuter, of the Lord Dunmore, said slip, paying the advertisement, shall have her again.
[New York Gazette, 13 January 1777]

The above ads illustrate yet another parallel between deserted soldiers and dogs: Some regiments seem to have had more problems with desertion than others. From advertisements alone we do not know if these regiments were poorer at discipline, or if they simply were more likely to advertise their strays.

All of those dogs that appear in scenes of British camps around London in 1778 were noticed by general officers, but not being as well disciplined as the soldiery they were not as well appreciated. Orders were given on 2 July 1779 that officers must keep their dogs tied, and private soldiers were not allowed to have dogs. As with many directives against disorderly behavior, this one seems to have had limited impact; on 24 August a new order was given that any strange dogs found in the camp were to be hanged.

Soldiers who were advertised for desertion were not necessarily criminal or malicious in their motives. Some were inadvertently absent having been distracted by temptations or simply lost their way. We assume that most of the dogs that strayed did so for similar reasons, rather than an explicit desire to leave their masters or settle in colonies. In spite of the bad image invoked by those who ultimately were advertised, most soldiers and most dogs remained loyal. And when the day of battle came they stood by their officers, as evidenced by a passage in a letter from Major Charles Stewart to his father, Lord Bute, after the battle of Long Island in August 1776:

In this brush we had more than 100 killed and wounded, three men of my Batt. wounded, and, what was more singular, my dog as he was lying by me.

And on at least one occasion, an officer's dog influenced the outcome of an action, although the dog actually played no direct role. When British forces were investing the area around Charleston, South Carolina in early 1780 a German officer wrote:

A Jäger of the new picket had his dog along. Because this dog had run ahead of the advanced post, his master called for him, whistling the recall of the jägers. Hence Lieutenant Kling, though I had told him to remain at his post until nightfall, withdrew, believing that I had changed my mind. He was barely halfway to the encampment when twenty enemy horse arrived at the very spot where he had lain in ambush. This was unfortunate indeed! Luck is the main thing in war.

Had this dog remained at this master's heel, the ambush may have been successful, but we would not have left us with a valuable example of the use of whistle signals. Here's to the dogs of war!



Mario

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Adam Wetherington
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Real Name: Adam Wetherington

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome Mario!
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Adam Wetherington
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Real Name: Adam Wetherington

PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MAY/JUNE 2001 OTT has an article that mentions a hunter in Kentucky who talks about his bull dog he brought with him from the East.

He describes how his dog would catch bears while others bayed it. To me these other dogs he's describing sound like hound type dogs, in my mind I'm thinking of something more similar to a Plott instead of a hound like a Walker. Bulldogs typically don't bay, so it sounds like there were more baying dogs than bulldogs.
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Mario
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plotts are very specific to a certain area. Johann Plott arrived in NC about 1750 and even until WW2, Plott hounds were virtually unknown outside western NC.

Most modern hounds (Walker, Redtick, Bloodhound, American Foxhound, etc) come from English hound stock with Blueticks being originally French hounds ("Gascon" IIRC).

Mario

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Adam Wetherington
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Real Name: Adam Wetherington

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but that type of dog (one that was gritty, with a good nose, and used for hunting large game) was not limited to one area.

They weren't bear hunting with spaniels. LOL

Granted, I'm not sure that the original poster even cares about "hunting" but if so I think one could go with a dog that has traits of the dogs I mentioned. Or certainly, a bulldog. Not one of those English ones of course.

If not, your quotes certainly provide ample evidence for other breeds more suited to other pursuits.
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Mario
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Real Name: Mario Doreste

PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no. I'm sure there were dogs around with the same qualities, just that they weren't actually Plott hounds.

BTW, good article:

http://borntotracknews.blogspot.com/2009/12/big-game-hunting-with-dogs-in-frontier.html

Mario

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Isaac
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somethings to think about...

-who do you portray... as Mario said, some dogs fit better to certain personae

-what do you wish to do with the dog? Do you want it as a pet, to pull or carry, to hunt?

-Also as Mario said, few events allow dogs. I have a dog that I specifically chose to be good for the history I love. She is trained to pull and is a great dog but she is allowed few places.

IW

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AxelP
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Real Name: Ken Prather

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I considered an 18th C dog persona, a catahoula bear dog-- the advantage was I did not have to buy a firelock or other gear... But the fur outfit itched me something fierce... The going to the bathroom wherever I please had its advantages, but again, it excluded me from most events. Running around on all fours played havok with my lower back too.

I finally gave up on the dog persona and went with a virginia rifleman. I can still go to the bathroom wherever I please, and I do not have to wear that infernal fur outfit and best of all, I get to stand upright... win win.

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Mario
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Real Name: Mario Doreste

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Mario

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Mongol
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Real Name: Steve Hart

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: Wire Fox Terriers Reply with quote

Like many of today's Terrier breeds, the Wire Fox Terrier descended from the rough coated black and tan terrier. He was developed in the British Isles in the 17th century, where he was bred to "go to ground" and chase fox and other small game from their dens.
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Watchman
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Real Name: Zachary Masterson

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realized I never posted a reply on this! Thanks for all the advice

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"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand."
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