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If complaints about Jackie Brown offend you, don't read this
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Jim H
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Andalusia, Alabama
Real Name: Jim Hallford

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: If complaints about Jackie Brown offend you, don't read this Reply with quote

Quote from Jackie Brown on the subject of dealing with gun makers:

“I have read with interest the problems some are having with *********. I have no idea what the porblem is but I just wanted to give some tips in dealing with a gunmaker when ordering a new gun.
Number one, don't give your gunmaker all the money up front. If he insists, find another gunmaker. It probably shows that he has financial problems and will use your payment to build a gun for a customer way up the order list. Paying the money up front won't get your gun any faster and if the gunmaker has financial problems, you run a much greater risk of losing the money.
Number two, don't give a large down payment up front. A deposit of 100.00 will show that you're a serious customer and if the gunmaker is financially stable or unless the ordered gun is a special, high dollar out of the ordinary, the 100.00 is sufficient.
Number three, and I don't like this one either, you can ask your gunmaker to send the gun COD. Actually, the bottom line is the same but it just takes the gunmaker a few more days to get his money. It DOES give the worrying customer a feeling of protection. Don't feel intimidated to ask.
Things can happen to harm a gunmaker financially as any self employed person. The gunmaker who wants all the money up front is taking a serious risk himself. WE gunmakers tend to let our mouths over load our (well you know) when we promise a gun at a certain time. I make promises everyday about delivery dates that I know I can't meet. I have to stop that and I promise to try to do better. You, the customer, deserve a straight answer. When you call and don't get an answer, don't ever think we don't know you have called. We DO.
"When all else fails to remedy a lost money situation, do all the law allows to collect. It's your right and business is business. The muzzleloading world is a relatively tight knit fabric and we all know what the other one is doing. Spread the word, just don't flame someone on a public forum like this one. Not good. Word WILL get around. I sincerely hope ***** gets straightened out. He's not a bad guy." “

Jackie Brown-Gunmaker
Home of the Carolina smoothbore and longrifle




I truly hate to make this post but I feel it is necessary to bring this situation to light in hopes that others will not be taken in by Jackie Brown’s promises. Unfortunately, I thought I would be immune to things like this happening to me. These things happen to the “other guy”. Well, they can and will happen to you. This is sad because Jackie has talent, charm, a great personality and could be an asset to an already too small traditionalist community. Instead, he chooses to use these traits to do business in a most unprofessional manner filled with excuses, promises he knows he can’t keep, out and out lies and lacking the cash reserve to insure that his customers are treated fairly in a timely manner. He gives a black eye to every builder out there. He should be banned from doing business on honest forums like this. One day, some enterprising attorney will represent a client who heard of Jackie thru this forum and will name the forum as a party in support of Jackie. It’s just a matter of time. What follows is an account of my transaction with him. If anyone doubts this I’ll be happy to forward to them each and every email we exchanged to prove what I say. Over a week ago I email Jackie and told him I would post this if I had not received a refund by 7 June, yesterday. He either doubted me, didn’t care or had already spent my money and has none of his own to back up his “lifetime” guarantee. Jackie, I’m keeping my word. I always do.

Back in August ‘06 I saw a gun I liked advertised for sale on the Round Robin. I emailed the builder for more pictures and upon seeing additional pictures, saw something I didn’t like, (on this particular gun, the barrel protruded about two inches past the end of the stock and it had no nose cap) and told the builder thanks but no thanks and why. He asked that I call him and he’d quote me a price on building exactly what I wanted. I did so and we worked out a plan. He told me that he could deliver in 30 to 45 days. I questioned this and he said he does it all the time, no problem. I sent ½ of the money that next morning and the rest two weeks later. He didn’t ask me to pre-pay, I just had some expenses coming up and wanted that cleared out of the way. That was my choice. He told me that all along the build he would keep in touch and send pictures as he went along. I sat back to wait.
Along about Nov. I emailed him to ask how it was going. He replied that he had some rebuilding to do on some rifles damaged in shipment and would be finished with mine soon. End of Dec I emailed again and he said he was working on it. End of Jan I emailed him that deer season was over and asked how it was coming. He sent me a picture of a blank he was going to use for the wood.. I wondered about this as he had told me that he was “working on it” back in Dec. Anyway, I wasn’t in a great hurry, but I was wondering about his excuses by now. Turkey season ended in mid April and I emailed to tell him that another season was over and asked about his progress. He replied that the guy he uses to do some of his wood finishing was ill and that since it was such a fine piece of wood, he had been taking his time and using AF to finish the wood. ( haven’t received one picture of his progress as he promised) 10th of April I again asked about the progress and he said it was completed and had been shipped to me. Two weeks later I emailed him too ask if we needed to do a tracer on it since I had not received it. He replied that it had been built for two weeks and packaged up and he was waiting to get a chance to go to the post office to mail it. He said his Post Office was 15 miles away and he was sorry for the delay. He cited medical problems with his wife and mother in law.
On May the 2nd it arrived. I opened the box and wondered what the HE?? The only thing resembling the gun I ordered was that it had iron furniture. No nose cap, no carving, no thumb piece inlay, no sights, and the color wasn’t even close . I’m not even sure it was the same piece of wood he had sent me a picture of. If it was, he did a good job of obliterating a lot of figure. I didn’t even remove it from the package. Just closed it up and shipped it back. I sent him an email advising him that it was being returned and told him to mail me a refund check. I waited a week, got the signed receipt where he received had signed for it on May 4th and having not heard from him, I called. He said he was sorry and that he just messed up. I did receive an email from him asking if I got his email. He said he had tried to email me several times and had not heard from me. I’m not having any email problems that I know of. I get everyone else’s. Then he went in to all manners of excuses, mostly that he had been traveling to and from hospitals with sick family. He said the rifle was sold and I would have my money in a couple of days. He also said he just didn’t have the money to repay me at the present time. I have since seen the gun advertised twice on this forum so apparently he hasn’t sold it.
It was clear to me that he didn’t even pay any attention to what I ordered. It was like he just sent whatever he had on hand after 10 months of waiting. I was trying to be patient and trying to be nice about it. Now I don’t feel so nice. I did keep every piece of correspondence we exchanged and I even googled him up and found similar problems with other people and similar excuses from him. I am guilty of pre-paying if you want to think about it that way, BUT, I still believe most folks are honest, especially in this community. I still believe in “handshake “ agreements. This hasn’t changed that. I also am guilty of thinking…well….it won’t happen to me”…yeah well it did and I did learn that lesson. Hopefully this post will be around in some archive or other on the web so that when folks want to research Jackie Brown, there will be at least one documented opinion out there to find. I see this as no different than if I warned folks about an email scam that rips folks off or a product that is a waste of money because it isn’t what it is advertised to be. We all need to know those things are out there. Failing that, it will at least expose some of Jackie’s excuses like 1. His wife is pregnant, his mother in law is sick, he had to rebuild guns broken in shipment, the post office is 15 miles away, the person he uses for wood finishes is sick, the wood is so fine that he wants to take his time and do it himself. At least it might force him to come up with new excuses for the next buyer. I’m taking Jackie’s own advice from the above quote and am going to pursue this via legal channels.
To all of Jackie’s prospective customers…do as he suggested, in his own words, and make the deal COD. If he refuses, ask yourself why anyone would not take their own advice. Better yet, if you just have to have a “Jackie Brown Smoothbore“ ( and after seeing what he sent me I cannot understand why), buy a used one from someone you can trust.

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Ask an American Indian what uncontrolled immigration did to his way of life. Then, think about your children and grandchildren.
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Sir Reply with quote

Sir , trust me, it aint just Jackie.

Try 4 years.

I hate you have had a bad experience. I think this...I do,,,,,if all of this being 'put off on your order', and being lied to..and just ingnored , continues,,,a killing is waiting to happen.

Now, that'll look good on our hobby, yes ?

You know what we need...and im NOT suggesting Jason provide it,,but there needs to be a sounding 'message board'...for product reviews, experience with craftsmen reviews,,,etc,,,you know,,,,to let others beware and draw things in the light of day.

If someone would check on the legality of ME providing it,,and id be immune from and lawsuits for slander or liable,,which ever the typed word pertains to,,get me immunity and you have the board. OK ?

A bit of release might just save a life.

Capt Mike * who is just about a star alingment and a half fifth of rum from becomming evening news
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Joe H
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I wont do business with anyone not personally known to me online again. Reading these posts and personal experience has taught me it isnt wise. Joe
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Jim H
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Andalusia, Alabama
Real Name: Jim Hallford

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike.. I seriously doubt anyone could take matters that far over a gun deal, at least I hope not, but your're right you never know. There are some crazies out there. Forums that continuwewe to allow folks like him to do business on them even though there are numerous complaints just very well may have some exposure, especially these days when lawyers "throw everything against the wall to see what sticks" I sincerely hope this never happens as forums like this are so valuable to us all.
The main reasons for my post is to warn others. If I never recieve a dime of the money I doubt I'll starve or go bankrupt. If that were the case I wouldn't have spent it to begin with. To me it's the principle involved. It's one thing to profess honor and integrity, quite another to posess it. Why couldn't he have just said, hey, I'm behind and it may be a year before i get your rifle built. I was in no hurry and that would have been fine with me and I would have respected him for it. The way he went about it makes me think that he thinks I'm stupider than I am. What intelligent person would buy those excuses especially when you look at the time lines involved. Now that part makes me angry. " Its coming along fine in December" and "I finally got started on it.... in January" Geez. Oh well I'm content to let the legal system do it's thing. Yes, as has been suggested, I'll file in small claims court, contact the Mississippi Attorney Generals office, the BBB, and I think a note to the IRS might also be in order. Thankfully you can cut and paste "for sale" and "sold" ads from a couple of years back. Also, I'm fortunate in that attorney fees don't apply to me. Although I'm not one, I do have two who actually work for me. They are mentioning things like mail fraud, unfair business practices, theft by deception, leins and frozen assets. We'll see. ( Ironbear...I'm in Andalusia for some reason can't send or reply to PM's)

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Ask an American Indian what uncontrolled immigration did to his way of life. Then, think about your children and grandchildren.
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captchee
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 256

Real Name: charles starks

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well as a small local builder i find it odd that his delivery time is so short ?
For me that would have sent bells off .
Myself I don’t build for anyone who can not come to my place in person , be properly fitted and witness the build first hand .
When it comes to the finish work and color , I want the customer there to approve the stain .
I also only ask for cost of parts up front .
This not only protects me but also the customer . 100 bucks doesn’t even cover the lock .
I also always make a point of making the time of delivery a day when both the new owner and myself can together put a few rounds through the new rifle .

Now this may mean that I will never become a big time , well known build . that’s fine , I have no problems with that .
To me its worth the price of never having a customer with a major problem like yours .

Sure hope things turn out for you
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Mr Hart Reply with quote

Would you be kind enough,,,via email for privacy,,more for you than me,,,,to keep me in the loop of what your atourneys tell you about your perusit on the gun matter ?

Im reasonable, but reasonable time has been exceeded.

How much money has to be involved before it becomes a felony warrent ?

Capt Mike,,, *who is about to stand up and kick back, and let the chips hit the wall
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bingothehutt
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,

First, good on ye for voicing up. Seems like if you have a bad time of it in the past, people don't like you posting about it.

Second, to those people, I would say, "See, told you it wasn't just sour grapes!"

I'm pretty sure if there were this many things said about the same guy, citing the same excuses, ESPECIALLY regarding a refund request, followed with even more excuses, most people would see it as a real problem. In fact, the mere $100 refund my friend has been wrangling with Jackie for for who knows how long.....well over a year now...... was finally conceded to by Jackie, and of course promised but still not delievered! I'm pretty sure he'll never see it, and he says he considers it the casualty of a real good rip off! I'm will you, Jim....for anyone looking for a gun, be warned!

I know it's not just Jackie that people have a problem with, but he does appear to be a problem! If you have a good one from him, good! You must have caught him some years ago, or else have been lucky. It seems though that anymore it's a crap shoot, heavy on the CRAP!

If it comes to persuing this matter through legal channels, do what I did. Do a search on this message board, print out all these different problem cases, and take them with you to court!
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Jim H
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Andalusia, Alabama
Real Name: Jim Hallford

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, will do. Justin..I have all the documentation, many pages printed out. The ball is in Jackies court, but I'm ready to turn it all over to the attorneys.

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sharps4590
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 60
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Real Name: Vic Schaefferkoetter

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, as you know, you are by no means the only person to have problems with Mr. Brown. From your post on this board and similar posts on other boards I believe Mr. Brown is not long for being in business. Given his treatment of me, nothing like what you experienced but bad enough in my estimation, I urge you to go forward.

Ideally you will receive your refund and Mr. Brown will see the error of his ways and repent.........but I'm not very optimistic.

I'll never do business with him again nor will I recommend him. There is a fairly well known writer who holds the same opinion.

Vic

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Nuttman
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Forum for Disreputable Merchants Reply with quote

I read the above posts and know how you feel. I have been taken before.
It's a shame because I have delt with some mighty fine folks and never had any trouble, but it only takes one to ruin your day.
My reason for writing is to respond to Capt. Mikes post. I am a member on the www.bladeforums.com websight. Over there they have a forum entitled "The Hall Of Shame". I don't know the legalities involved, but those fellows do not pull any pucnhes when they are done wrong. They name the person and tell the story about how they were taken, along with some choice opinions of the culprit. It is a shame that some folks do others that way, but I for one think they should be outed. Good Luck.
Herschel
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Halfdan
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Western Kentucky
Real Name: David Bell

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning the idea of a forum topic dedicated to bad deals/dealers--lots of message boards do it. My wife is a candle maker and many of those boards have sections titled "Hall of Shame" or "Bad Deals", etc,; you get the idea. As far as libel goes, the truth will protect you. meaning that what you post must be true and it wouldn't hurt to have some documentation of the bad deal to back it up. It also makes a nice place to check out dealers before making a purchase.

Something to think about, and a valuable service to the community.

Regards,
Halfdan

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Halfdan
"Life in the Past Lane"
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Alleghanyranger
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Mssr. Brown Reply with quote

Gentlemen, I was once thinking about a purchase of one of his guns, but changed my mind based solely on an example of his work that was being offered as a prize in a raffle. The poor fit of wood to metal and knife marks in the wood put me off, not to mention the finish was no better than I am able to do myself. That was all I needed to see.
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Jackie Brown
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Walnut, Mississippi
Real Name: Jackie Brown

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: responses Reply with quote

I had decided not to respond to any of the posts but what the heck, you fellers need something to read anyway. LOL It seems that 1166 of you are interested.

Jim, I'm sorry you weren't happy with your gun. I said that in a private e-mail. You will get your refund. Also told in private e-mail. I also told you by private e-mail that I needed to sell the gun to refund your money. That isn't too bad a sin evidently because I've had many, many customers to say they have saved a long time to order their gun. Why did they have to save? Didn't have it just like I didn't. Didn't mean they weren't good customers. I explained this to you by private e-mail and told you that I had advertised the gun on the Round Robin. Had three potential buyers and then you made your post on the Trekkers list trying to discourage a buyer. Would have been ok too if you had said the gun was ok just not to your likeing. As far as I know, your complaints were personal choices rather than defects in the gun, not sure. Any way, your post only served to hinder the solution to the situation.

Vic, I told you by e-mail which I still have that the gun you bought was one I was selling for a friend that was built over a year ago at the time. I sold it at his asking price as a favor and then tried to fix your complaints and pay shipping out of my own pocket. I'm sorry if I failed in that aspect. I would like to see the hexhead touch hole liner though. I don't remember if yours was coned in or out but I do know it wasn't a hex head screw. But, my apologies to you!

Russ, When and where did you see one of my guns as a raffle prize? Just wondering as I haven't sold or given a gun for a prize in probably 10 years. Did I build it? Was it an in the white gun someone else finished? Just curious. My apologies for your disappointment.

Capt. Mike, I'm sorry you have had a bad deal with a gunmaker. It wasn't me.

Justin, If I remember correctly, you are the third man in the trio that ordered guns and appointed your Bi-Polar friend (will not mention names, he can't help it) as your spokesman. He couldn't decide which gun he wanted. He had some personal issues and called EVERY day for weeks, usually between 10:00PM and Midnight. I'm not a licensed counselor! I don't talk personal (know what I mean) and stopped answering. About the time your guns were ready to send, he called and said he changed his mind and didn't want a gun and the other two (you and your friend) had got into shooting cowboys or cowboy shooting whatever and wanted refunds. I believe you had put up 500.00 and you got that back less the restocking fee (listening to your spokesman every day) . Your friend's $100.00 refund????? He'll get it..........when I get the bad taste of you three out of my mouth.

To all that have been offended by this, for my part, I apologize. Now listen close, my guns have a lifetime warranty, either yours or mine. I replace or refund whichever if not happy. Now again, listen close. If a customer wants a three day inspection with immediate money back, if he will state that to me, I will hold his check or money until he has the inspection. If not happy, he gets it back right then. If he decides later he doesn't want the gun, he may have to wait until I sell it. I wish I was independently wealthy, I wish my family had no medical problems, and, oh yes, world peace too.

Make comments if you wish but I have no intention of responding publicly again. You can e-mail me at jbrowngunmaker@dixie-net.com and we'll talk all day and be friends.

Jackie
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David Brown
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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 78
Location: The Old Southwest-backwoods Cherokee country
Real Name: David Brown

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caveat Emptor. This is not a new story; just more of the same ol', same ol'. Talk is cheap. Just be sure your friends are duly warned. Ask around before taking anyone's ads or claims at face value. And again I say:

CAVEAT EMPTOR.

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I believe I'll have a beer.
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Capt Mike
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Real Name: Anonymous

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: David Reply with quote

David,,I love your signature line...

Reminds me,,,

think i'll have another beer too !
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